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No input mixer query
  • patturpattur
    Posts: 62
    hi all ok most of us im sure are aware of using mixer as instruments and its implications something ive not been able to try and was curious about was if it would work with a fourtrack say porta studio thus being able to record the output signal ?
  • _ch__ch_
    Posts: 1,899
    hi
    yeah, should work the same

    you can get some incredible sounds.

    we had a guy from bulgaria play in southampton a while back, Gokkun, he played no-input mixer. headbutted his pedals too. lovely chap. :-)
    although it probably wasn't loud enough, some of the frequencies he was churning out were harsh
    really beautiful/unpleasant tones...

    i have killed at least one channel on my mixer, but i don't remember it being due to internal feedback
    i mention this because i read someone saying on a forum that feedback loops can apparently harm some pedals..! (i can hear alot of you reading this and gasping... ;-) ha)
    but i don't know the ins and outs of it - i'll try and find the thread...
  • expexp
    Posts: 2,618
    I used to feed a cheap Behringer multi-effects back into itself. I got some amazing results, particularly with the chorus, but the pedal died within a couple of weeks. On reflection, y'know... Behringer.

    On the other side of things, I've abused my two Behringer Intelligates mercilessly and they've stood up to punishment just fine (I should probably rack mount them, though).

    In general I'd recommend using a desk with as many aux channels as possible. The more control options the better (decent EQ, etc). I noticed, with some degree of ¦3ness, that Toshimaru Nakamura used the same mixer as me in one YouTube clip (a Mackie 1208, I fink. Seth no remember numbers good). It's capable of some lovely sounds.

    The slightest tweak can produce wildly different results. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't seem satisfactory straight away. How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
  • patturpattur
    Posts: 62
    i used to no input with a boss multi effects pedal and that worked beautifully just planning on using tape loops on a fourtrack with no inputs hoping it will produce something interesting

    seth i have heard mixed reports about behringer pedals some say they are fantastic others say there aweful but think its mainly down to wether you get a bad bunch or not i personally believe that if you can get what is a pretty much a line 6 delay pedal for 50 quid less that your got to destroy anyway by feeding noise through that its probably a better spend especially as id never be at a level of electronics that i could build something my self would live to make a freeze pedal though :)
  • Agree with exp on the "as many aux sends as possible" point - bleed (or intentionally routing between isolated feedback channels (as the channels begin to interfere with each other in semi-stable ways) gives the complexity and rhythmic effects in my experience .

    Also EQ is a must - a board with 3 band eq on each channel is incredibly handy and that tweaked judiciously will produce more sound variety than any number of pedals/effects in the chain.
    I use a VERY cheap behringer notepad mixer. Currently trying to get my hands on a cheap mixer with midi-automatable faders so I can automate fader and eq movements from max and build a cybernetixnoinputmixertron.
  • expexp
    Posts: 2,618
    pattur said: would live to make a freeze pedal


    I just got a Freeze pedal. I really like it, it's especially useful with my Weevil. It almost mimics the oscillator-synch function that Mr. Bug introduced recently, they produce really nice harmonics depending on how you play the two together.

    My mixer is a Mackie 1202-VLZ, by the way. Here's the aforementioned clip in which Toshimaru Nakamura uses one while miming to his own music like a Top of the Pops performing hack:





    Sandor Krasna said: Currently trying to get my hands on a cheap mixer with midi-automatable faders so I can automate fader and eq movements from max and build a cybernetixnoinputmixertron.


    That sounds awesome, as well as awesomely beyond my capabilities.
  • _ch__ch_
    Posts: 1,899
    post removed, and made into a thread/public service announcement
  • expexp
    Posts: 2,618
    martin_p said: post removed, and made into a thread/public service announcement


    *KISSES CLIVE*
  • _ch__ch_
    Posts: 1,899
  • dsicdsic
    Posts: 312


    I use a VERY cheap behringer notepad mixer. Currently trying to get my hands on a cheap mixer with midi-automatable faders so I can automate fader and eq movements from max and build a cybernetixnoinputmixertron.



    love to do a duo with yer if you do this and you're up for it.
  • Just looked into it again with this thread having reminded me - the cheap motorised behringer mixer I saw is not a mixer -just midi faders. £1k + for a motorised mixing board! woah.

    think my MOTU 828 might work - no faders obviously but it might work as a midi controllable mixer if I get some cheapy midi faders. I'll give it a try once I've got my gig out the way next sat- if it works out then yeah a duo would definitely be cool.
  • I have a Mackie 1202 and used it 'No Input' for some recordings I put out as "thaw" (a C90 and a 3"CD) -The set up was No Input with a line 6 Dl4 to loop parts and my mate Rich Bowers processing another output channel of the mixer with some C-Sound patches he'd written... Heres a recording of a performance we did at Cardiff's Atrium - apologies for the low audio, I didn't record it.
  • Durrr, tried using embedd, obviously doesn't work like that:




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    width="425" height="344">
  • Whilst I'm thinking about it - there IS a guy who plays a No Input mixer set-up with motorised faders... Marko Ciciliani.
  • _ch__ch_
    Posts: 1,899
    can people please recommend some no-input mixer recordings?

    thanks awfully :-D
  • I don't think I've ever damaged ANYTHING thru feedback in 10 years of doing so. :) The only mixer I actually broke survived a full pint of beer being spilled into it and a number of sets ended by throwing it across the room before finally starting to have dodgy channels. Was only a cheap Tapco one too.

    I think a lot of fear about damaging gear comes from guitarist circles... too many people who play an electric amplified instrument but have little knowledge of or interest in electronic sound so treat all sorts of perfectly straightforward things with a kind of cargo cult magical thinking approach. :)
  • martin_p said:

    can people please recommend some no-input mixer recordings?

    thanks awfully :-D


    I don't know if I'd recommend it haha but one of my first Cementimental CDs was all no-input mixing. Not even real mixers with fx sends etc; I think most of it was done with a couple of cheapo DJ and camcorder mixers connected together. No real effects tho maybe a distortion or two in there on some tracks. Oh and the last track was recorded just with a minidisk recorder, input to output and blind (uhh deaf i guess) twiddling of the volume control without being able to actually hear what was going on until I played back the recording :)

    It was released on Dollarcd.com back in the day, now still avaliable print on demand in slightly nicer packaging here -
    http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/confusable-electricity/245473

    http://www.discogs.com/Cementimental-Confusable-Electricity/release/1737761
  • _ch__ch_
    Posts: 1,899
    Cementimental said: I don't think I've ever damaged ANYTHING thru feedback in 10 years of doing so.


    i thot i read something on troniks that said or suggested damage could be caused. more than happy to find out the opposite tho. :-)



    Cementimental said: input to output and blind (uhh deaf i guess) twiddling of the volume control without being able to actually hear what was going on until I played back the recording :)


    this. forever.

    :-D
  • martin_p said:

    Cementimental said: I don't think I've ever damaged ANYTHING thru feedback in 10 years of doing so.


    i thot i read something on troniks that said or suggested damage could be caused. more than happy to find out the opposite tho. :-)


    Uhh well I guess it's still possible ^_^; don't blame me if it does happen!
  • RichT
    Posts: 84
    It generally shouldn't damage pedals by sticking them in feedback loops (I thought that was what they were made for?). It'll depend on the circuit design, but most decent ones should have diodes in place in case too much voltage/current gets put through.

    Sandor- something like this may work (although the auxes are digital, and no dancing faders) http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul99/articles/rolandvm3100.htm
    they go for about £75-£100

    I've also tried using the mixer on my soundcard (RME multiface) as an automated matrix mixer, but I got a lot of zipper noise and the midi mapping was a nightmare. It also doesn't have knobs, but it's small. May work better on other soundcards with built in DSP mixers.

    My weapon of choice is the Tapco Blend 6, which has 2 auxes and is smaller than the mackie. Actually I've also got a Mackie 1202 which makes a load of noise on it's own in the cupboard too.

    Feedback loops aren't just great with audio but control voltage too :)

    Other goodies in the cupboard include 2 input modules from a DDA CS12M monitor desk, which I've intended on turning into a massive feedback loop instrument (it has 12 aux sends and EQ with 2 sweeps on the mids) and sticking all the outputs into a patchbay. It's been on hold since I ordered some power supplies and they never turned up. I'll also have to crimp my own idc cables
  • RichT
    Posts: 84
    this has just inspired me to get on ebay and buy PSUs and some nice gay cabling:

    image

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