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Twelve Tapes (collaboration)
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    It’s a tricky one to find an audience for because it ticks so many boxes – it’s a little bit DIY, a little bit exquisite corpse, a little bit open composition, a little bit lo-fi tape experiment, a little bit field recording, a little bit installation, a little bit performance, and 100% collaborative to the extent that no single individual can claim credit.  What are the nearest points of comparison?

    Yeah, the 12 hour duration was suggested because of my involvement in the Hakarl36 show. Must be getting a dodgy reputation!

    Performances elsewhere are definitely welcome!
  • Kev - Maybe look into getting hold of a car park as a performance space for White Night?

    I like the pureness of projecting a Sine Wave into a car park. It could be a nice development of this project, although if that was the focus then maybe 30 minutes wouldn't be needed? One of the things I like about the long recording session is the sound made by people coming through, using the machines and clip clopping around talking in reverby indistinctness. If the focus was more on the car park itself would you be wanting all these?

    For me it would also make recording much harder - one of the things I like about the way its going now is that I can turn up with a recorder and a Recorder and get on with it. As we haven't actually visited a car park with a car yet, it'd be a drag taking some kind of amplification with us.

    And of course having a car would cut out the opportunity to drink first and record later.

    Geoff
  • Sounds like you had a good performance.

    Your comments re:sine wave make sense from one point of view, and as single persons composition it would have that 'bloody mindedness' that can make things a success but it would be less sprawling and interpretive than this seems.

    I like the idea of 12 hrs of it. It wasn't what I'd imagined, in fact somehow I'd imagined only a half hr performance but with replaying tapes on different machines (and I'm guessing with varrying lagg as it takes time to swap tapes from machines to machines) but I'm guessing that gives a nice way to adjust dynamics from a single tape to multiple tapes, with varying adjustments of hiss, background noise, throb, and tones.

    I definitely want to get it done down this way in some capacity I can get involved in. I think Geoff is right that White Night would be a) a good place to do the multihour performance and b) a good chance to get the use of a carpark.

    also I will be (hopefully) out of my phd by then and back in the world of real people.
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    Hey all - just spring cleaning our SoundCloud, as we're nearing our twelve hour limit. It'd pointless having the reference tone on there, so I'm moved it to SendSpace - http://www.sendspace.com/folder/n0i0xh

    We're doing Twelve Tapes for the next Southampton Bang the Bore, 12th May. If you live in the North and want to be part of this then let me know - if there are enough people to split the fuel costs then I'll drive down from Leeds for it.

    Sine waves in car parks - it'd be identical to this methodology, just using sine waves. Much more about how the acoustic environment and playback systems alter a pure tone... also more challenging for the performer, unless it's run more like an installation without live performances. I think it'd be a much stronger piece, more elegant, a better exploration of what the piece is doing - but it's admittedly harder to record and involves less in the way of individual expression.

    As to whether we do it, I'm not fussed either way. I'll probably do it myself at some point now that I've got all these tape decks off Freecycle.

    I've got eleven tape decks now, by the way. Does anyone want to donate the twelfth?
  • If you do Twelve Tapes pt2: This Time It's Sine Waves, I'll do a couple.
  • Do you need many more version 1 car park recordings?
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    Yeah, I'm still collecting for the version we've agreed here.

    If I do another version with sine waves then I'll organise that on the Borum if there's interest, but otherwise I'll either do it myself or involve specific interested parts via email. Not sure how to play that yet - part of me thinks that using identical equipment for each one might be important, I haven't decided.
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    A better quality download, and a front page article including photos and video, to follow. But here you go all - the fruit of our labour.
  • KNICKERS
    Posts: 1,231
    I'm about an hour in - going to stick it on in the background for most of today. Surprised at how dense it feels. I mean, that was kind of obvious but I was half expecting something pretty discrete - it's surprisingly bleak-sounding. It's a bit Scelsi and a bit spectral. Arrows.
  • KNICKERS
    Posts: 1,231
    Hmm. Sudden thought - we've got 12 hours of this, 36 hours of supernormal - that's two days already; how about we aim for a week with BtB boxset by 2013?
  • KNICKERS
    Posts: 1,231
    There's some dying elephant sounds at about 53 minutes into hour 3 - what's them then?
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    Kev said: There's some dying elephant sounds at about 53 minutes into hour 3 - what's them then?


    Bouncy ball on bamboo skewer, run across the inner surface of stainless steel sink. The same method is producing that ringing harmonic note, but it's as difficult to control as bowing metal - hence the elephant tone's in there, too.

    Kev said: we've got 12 hours of this, 36 hours of supernormal - that's two days already; how about we aim for a week with BtB boxset by 2013


    So we just need 120 hours of material to fill up the box? Are you trying to make the (imminent) Missing Nothing look like our attempt at a hit single?
  • KNICKERS
    Posts: 1,231
    Bang the bore: the library.
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    You're supposed to be silent in a library. Or so Doctor Who tells me.
  • KNICKERS
    Posts: 1,231
    Have you been in a library in the last few years? Maybe it's just the ones I'm in, but the hushed reverence punctuated by crackling leafs is long gone.
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    All the Bradford documentation (including the above embedded audio stream) is now collected on our front page in the form of an article: http://www.bangthebore.org/archives/3137

    The remaining video is uploading as I type this. Enjoy, everyone - I'm really pleased with the results.
  • SethSeth
    Posts: 2,446
    So - eighteen months have passed. Time to revisit Twelve Tapes.

    I'm keen to get this up and running again. 2014 is Bang the Bore's fifth anniversary, at which we'll probably stage at least two or three performances of Twelve Tapes (one of which may be in the form of an open workshop).

    First things first - how would people feel about creating new recordings? Having performed it in its current form it's clear that, while working musically, an important aspect of the spirit of the piece has been lost in translation from concept to execution.

    It's fairly clear that in order to highlight the variance in record/playback speed between different tape decks and the sonic idiosyncrasies of the various car parks, the actual sound made by us in those car parks needs to be uniform and non-performative - to literally play back the sine wave into the environment, without any kind of additional sound or performance. The more expressive we are the less control there is and the more the piece fails on its own terms.

    So I've decided to keep what we've got, and also create a second version that hews closer to what this piece feels like it 'ought' to be. Of course, within that there's lots of wiggle room:

    - Of the 30 minute recordings, how long do we play the sine wave for? The whole 30 minutes? If less than that, should there be a means of deciding how long?
    - At what volume should the sine wave be played? I'm inclined to opt for "tinting" the environment - less intrusive for people using the space, not as overpowering of the sound of the environment, tunes the ears to hear the subtleties of the effect as opposed to knocking you over the head with them.
    - Should there be any set of instructions for the car park recordists besides "Play the sine wave into the environment at roughly X volume"?

    As ever - the floor is open to anyone to make suggestions.
  • I am interested in going for some more recordings, that could be fun. I only successfully completed one due to being a bit rubbish at the time.
    But from what I remember the "just sine wave" aspect was more Seth's specific choice of interpretation rather than the actual remit. The Note B was important.
    Personally I enjoyed a sparse/sporadic or consistent note, eventually reproduced in an erratic fashion, in the car park space. But within that note and volumes there was all levels of improvisation around that. This microscopic detail of change, both specific within the former varying the way they play the B, and the accidental - aka the carpark itself, is the fun. The extreme examination of texture.

    This extreme detail aspect is lovely within the performance wherein you get mulitple tape machines around the space- each voicing differently into a physically different part of the room.
  • I think from talking to Seth, this is basically a new piece growing out of and responding to the old piece - reducing it down to something Seth and I (and maybe others) found interesting in it.

    The idea being to limit to sine waves and reduce the room for improvisation in order to reduce the expressive aspect and emphasise the phenomena of the microtunally detuned bs interracting with both the individual car park spaces and the tape medium, but also the other tape machines in the space of the room where the piece is performed. Layerings of technologically constructed spaces - the car parks, the stereo field, the performance space.


    12 tapes still exists so no real need to repeat that (and actually I think there are only 12 recordings for 12 tapes and there's no reason why people couldn't continue with it - making new ones to take that up to the 24 sides of c60) but maybe best to think of this as a new piece, developing some of the ideas in the original, more precisely focusing in on one aspect of it.

    Seth said: - Of the 30 minute recordings, how long do we play the sine wave for? The whole 30 minutes? If less than that, should there be a means of deciding how long?


    We talked about this the other night, but I'll repeat it here for discussion on the forum. I wonder if maybe a total of 20 mins out of 30, freely divided by the performer. This way providing there's more than one tape playing we'll hear the effects of microtonal detuning between the tapes, as well as (probably) patches of silence and individual tones. If you add more then you'll get interesting variations in the density of the note and interference patterns as the piece unfolds.

    I wonder if it might be worth getting people to record their timings in a list eg 00:00 - 10:00, 20:00-30:00 so that if people wish to, they can pick out a set of tapes that will give them certain very roughly defined results.


    Seth said: - At what volume should the sine wave be played? I'm inclined to opt for "tinting" the environment - less intrusive for people using the space, not as overpowering of the sound of the environment, tunes the ears to hear the subtleties of the effect as opposed to knocking you over the head with them.


    I think I agree. Or maybe below the volume of the loudest thing in the car park, but slightly above the average ambient volume.

    Seth said:- Should there be any set of instructions for the car park recordists besides "Play the sine wave into the environment at roughly X volume"?


    As I say above I think it'd be nice to suggest that they should play 20 mins out of 30, distributed however they like. Possibly deciding distribution beforehand (though probably not neccessary) and possibly recording their distribution.

    Possibly suggest to try different locations within the car park?

    Do we want to allow (or even suggest) performers to move the sound source around the space while performing?

    Do we want to suggest stereo micing where possible?



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